Comments on: "鬻" http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/ disoriented in the orient Sat, 14 Jan 2012 04:38:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Brendan O'Kane http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-2153 Brendan O'Kane Fri, 04 Mar 2011 05:13:08 +0000 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/#comment-2153 @Minivet - Four years! Wow. At any rate, you're completely right; 鬻 means (mostly) "to sell" and I was getting more than a little bit ahead of myself when I wrote this post. Thanks for commenting. @Minivet – Four years! Wow. At any rate, you’re completely right; 鬻 means (mostly) “to sell” and I was getting more than a little bit ahead of myself when I wrote this post. Thanks for commenting.

]]> By: Minivet http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-2152 Minivet Thu, 03 Mar 2011 00:59:37 +0000 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/#comment-2152 4 years after this was posted, but I'll comment anyway... From your evidence and elsewhere, I don't see any indication that 鬻 ever meant "sell one's child" - in every compound you cite with that meaning, it's in conjunction with 子, "child," suggesting that on its own it's just "sell," possibly with a flavor of unsavoriness, but that could just be a result of the word passing out of use except in the unsavory compounds. Also, it seems more plausible that 鬻文 is simply "selling one's writing" rather than "selling one's child, which is a metaphor for one's writing" - the latter multiplies entities unnecessarily. 4 years after this was posted, but I’ll comment anyway…

From your evidence and elsewhere, I don’t see any indication that 鬻 ever meant “sell one’s child” – in every compound you cite with that meaning, it’s in conjunction with 子, “child,” suggesting that on its own it’s just “sell,” possibly with a flavor of unsavoriness, but that could just be a result of the word passing out of use except in the unsavory compounds.

Also, it seems more plausible that 鬻文 is simply “selling one’s writing” rather than “selling one’s child, which is a metaphor for one’s writing” – the latter multiplies entities unnecessarily.

]]> By: Turtles, lots, and proof simplification wasn’t all bad : John Biesnecker http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-1017 Turtles, lots, and proof simplification wasn’t all bad : John Biesnecker Mon, 08 Jan 2007 02:52:54 +0000 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/#comment-1017 [...] Then, in the course of my varied and meaningless reading, I stumbled upon a character that reaffirmed my belief that, for all its faults, simplification was the way to go. The new word I encountered was 抓阄, meaning “to draw lots.” I wasn’t familiar with the second character, so I looked it up only to discover that it was the simplified variant of 鬮, a 26-stroke monster that uses 龜 (simplified: 龟) as its phonetic component (according to Wenlin both 鬮 and 龜 are pronounced gau in Cantonese, but in Mandarin they are jiu and gui, respectively). I’d like to think this character was created to describe thrilling Han Dynasty turtle fights (鬮 = 鬥 (斗, “fight”) + 龜 (龟, “turtle”)) that were later banned by a turtle-loving Emperor, thus leaving people no choice but to draw lots when settling disputes, but more likely it was the result of one-upmanship by bored scholars. [...] [...] Then, in the course of my varied and meaningless reading, I stumbled upon a character that reaffirmed my belief that, for all its faults, simplification was the way to go. The new word I encountered was 抓阄, meaning “to draw lots.” I wasn’t familiar with the second character, so I looked it up only to discover that it was the simplified variant of 鬮, a 26-stroke monster that uses 龜 (simplified: 龟) as its phonetic component (according to Wenlin both 鬮 and 龜 are pronounced gau in Cantonese, but in Mandarin they are jiu and gui, respectively). I’d like to think this character was created to describe thrilling Han Dynasty turtle fights (鬮 = 鬥 (斗, “fight”) + 龜 (龟, “turtle”)) that were later banned by a turtle-loving Emperor, thus leaving people no choice but to draw lots when settling disputes, but more likely it was the result of one-upmanship by bored scholars. [...]

]]> By: Erica http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-1016 Erica Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:37:57 +0000 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/#comment-1016 I love the character for pregnant 孕 which combines the characters for uterus and child. I also use Wenlin and can't imagine what I'd do without it. I use Wenlin more than any other computer software. I love the character for pregnant 孕 which combines the characters for uterus and child. I also use Wenlin and can’t imagine what I’d do without it. I use Wenlin more than any other computer software.

]]> By: chunmu http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-1015 chunmu Sun, 10 Sep 2006 12:16:20 +0000 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/#comment-1015 Hello I readed your some articles that surprised me. I think, you are great man as a freign.Fighting!!!!! Hello I readed your some articles that surprised me. I think, you are great man as a freign.Fighting!!!!!

]]> By: 花崗齋之愚公 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-1014 花崗齋之愚公 Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:59:13 +0000 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/#comment-1014 Great, great post! Keep up the good writing. Great, great post! Keep up the good writing.

]]> By: Unusual Chinese Characters by Asia Blog http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-1013 Unusual Chinese Characters by Asia Blog Mon, 04 Sep 2006 04:58:21 +0000 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/#comment-1013 [...] If you thought you knew everything there is to express in the Chinese language, Bokane’s latest post will probably enlighten you.  It’s a delicious trek through linguistics and the derivation of characters as seen through a modern non-native viewpoint.  Warning:  salient language ahead. [...] [...] If you thought you knew everything there is to express in the Chinese language, Bokane’s latest post will probably enlighten you.  It’s a delicious trek through linguistics and the derivation of characters as seen through a modern non-native viewpoint.  Warning:  salient language ahead. [...]

]]> By: Lu http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-1012 Lu Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:22:07 +0000 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/#comment-1012 Nothing to add, just want to say that I love this post. Nothing to add, just want to say that I love this post.

]]> By: Brendan O'Kane http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-1011 Brendan O'Kane Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:49:50 +0000 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/#comment-1011 Also, 燕亭视野: There’s a really handy online interface to the 説文解字 (and to scans of seal and oracle-bone forms of characters) at <a href="http://internationalscientific.org" rel="nofollow">InternationalScientific.org</a>. I use it all the time. Wish someone would do the same thing for the 辞海 - I have a copy of it, but it’s the 缩印版, and I haven’t gotten around to getting reading glasses, so looking anything up is a royal pain in both the eye and the ass. Actually, what I would really love to see is a version of the Cihai for <a href="http://www.plecodict.com" rel="nofollow">Plecodict</a>. Right now, Pleco does offer the Unihan character database, but that doesn’t give any etymological information. Actually, Pleco’s per-character (as opposed to per-word) definitions are the weakest point of the software. Also, 燕亭视野: There’s a really handy online interface to the 説文解字 (and to scans of seal and oracle-bone forms of characters) at InternationalScientific.org. I use it all the time. Wish someone would do the same thing for the 辞海 – I have a copy of it, but it’s the 缩印版, and I haven’t gotten around to getting reading glasses, so looking anything up is a royal pain in both the eye and the ass.

Actually, what I would really love to see is a version of the Cihai for Plecodict. Right now, Pleco does offer the Unihan character database, but that doesn’t give any etymological information. Actually, Pleco’s per-character (as opposed to per-word) definitions are the weakest point of the software.

]]> By: Brendan O'Kane http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-1010 Brendan O'Kane Sun, 13 Aug 2006 08:30:28 +0000 http://bokane.org/2006/08/06/yu4-and-other-cool-chinese-characters/#comment-1010 Magnus - cheers; I remember hearing something about that a while back. I'll have to look for it - am planning a trip to the Beida library some time in the near-ish future anyway. Magnus – cheers; I remember hearing something about that a while back. I’ll have to look for it – am planning a trip to the Beida library some time in the near-ish future anyway.

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